Reply to "Rob in Toronto"

I typically don't write a whole post as a response to one comment, but I really wanted to for this particular comment. First-off I would like to say, thank you, "Rob," for sharing your opinion. Even though we obviously disagree, thank you for sharing. "Rob in Toronto" posted this comment on my post My Thoughts on Homosexuality:

My dear you truly just do not understand. Perhaps someday with some experience and age you will grow to understand people and how you are a part of destroying a whole segment of humanity.
Just yesterday I invited a gay friend to come to church with me. This church is inclusive and welcomes all. Still the anguish that was in my friend at the idea of stepping into a church was overwhelming to watch. Tears ran down his face as we sat there.
NO IT WAS NOT conviction... it was akin to going back to a family home where there was great abuse. The desire to be "home" mixed with the angst of all of the terrible memories and painful emotions that came flooding back.
I have seen this before...good people that grew up in the church... that want to love god, but eventually had to make the choice that was forced upon them... to either be true to themselves or to be a christian as many religious claim a christian is.
I asked him later what he was thinking. He told me that he so misses the church, but that the reminder of the wars that he battled for years was simply too much. That regardless of what the church claimed about the sin and the sinner, that the church had succeeded in convincing him of how God (and the church) hates him at core. Stepping into that buidling only succeeded in reminding him of the years that the church had succeeded in making him hate himself.
We talked of the shame that the church poured on him. How he begged god to make him straight. How he tried everything to be what the church claimed he could be. Eventually the "war" within him became too much. Eventually he understood that this was not something he was struggling "against"... this is who he is.
His freedom came when he finally realized that this was not going to change. But it came at a price. His only chance at freedom would mean that he would never again be accepted by his family, his church, or by extension their god. Still so strong is the desire for freedom that he took it. He has not looked back.
With the freedom came all kinds of lies and agendas that the church would claim that he was now living. They claimed that he was doing this or doing that... that he was now a part of some huge gay demonic agenda. In truth he has never been any different than who is has always been. Just that now THEY know about it.
Yesterday made him look back. He cannot go back there. The scars from the church are much too deep. They have etched their misery on him with a vengeance that cannot be forgotten. He does not want to revisit that war. He does not trust their intentions. He does not believe that they love him.
No my dear, I truly do not accept that you understand. You are not empathetic... you are instead ignorant to the realities of the human condition. Worse you take to the microphone as a spokesman of god.
You do not speak for god. You speak your own interpretations of religious texts. This is religion at its worst... the kind that spreads hate in a spoonful of sugar. If anything I have learned... it is how hate can be so easily disquised as love.


I'd like to break up this comment and talk about different parts of it, starting with this:

"I have seen this before...good people that grew up in the church... that want to love god, but eventually had to make the choice that was forced upon them... to either be true to themselves or to be a christian as many religious claim a christian is."

First of all, becoming a Christian does not at all mean that you aren't being your true, genuine self. Actually, I think becoming a Christian makes you realize what kind of person God created you to be, and each day you walk with God you become more and more that person. Does that make sense? When we're reading the Bible and talking (and listening) to God and having fellowship with other believers, we realize that there are attributes and habits in our life that aren't pleasing to God, and we realize that we need to work on removing those things from our lives and focusing on what God desires for us, which is always what is best for us (sorry, really long sentence :-)).

"That regardless of what the church claimed about the sin and the sinner, that the church had succeeded in convincing him of how God (and the church) hates him at core. Stepping into that buidling only succeeded in reminding him of the years that the church had succeeded in making him hate himself."

I do not want anyone to hate himself or think for a second that God (and Christians) hate him. God certainly doesn't hate anyone, regardless of the choices they've made (Romans 8:38-39), and just because I do not agree in the slightest with homosexuality does not mean that I hate gay people. Yes, I realized that I was somewhat harsh in the post you commented on, but a little while back I posted a follow-up post HERE, which I hope you will read. I realize that I have trouble conveying my beliefs without coming across harsh, but I do not believe that I was expressing hate in the post I wrote. This is my blog, and it is a place where I can freely write what I believe. On another note, many people say how being homosexual is wrong, etc. etc., (myself included) but neglect to really love those people with the love of Christ. I've realized that loving those people (homosexuals) will be more affective than telling them over and over how wrong they are. I don't think that people that have chosen to be gay/lesbian have lesser value than straight people or anything like that. Not at all! I just cannot and will not support them and agree with them. I don't agree with people who show hate towards them, either, just so we're clear.

"We talked of the shame that the church poured on him. How he begged god to make him straight. How he tried everything to be what the church claimed he could be. Eventually the "war" within him became too much. Eventually he understood that this was not something he was struggling "against"... this is who he is."

I have never been in this situation and cannot therefore post from personal experience, but I do not believe that God created anyone gay. I believe that if someone has truly surrendered their life to the LORD and given Him complete control, they can fight against what they want and start striving towards what God wants (although it is usually not the same as the things we humans want).

"No my dear, I truly do not accept that you understand. You are not empathetic... you are instead ignorant to the realities of the human condition. Worse you take to the microphone as a spokesman of god.
You do not speak for god. You speak your own interpretations of religious texts. This is religion at its worst... the kind that spreads hate in a spoonful of sugar. If anything I have learned... it is how hate can be so easily disquised as love."


First of all, I don't make up what I want God to say. I read what He says in His Word, the Bible. Leviticus 18:22 says: "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Once again, I sincerely apologize if my post came across as hateful. I do not hate homosexual people. But that does not mean I have to agree with them or support what they are doing. That isn't the same as hate. And yes, many churches have shown hate to homosexuals, but I am saddened that your view of ALL churches is that they just hate, hate, hate and never love. Because that is certainly not true. True followers of Jesus (although they do, too, make mistakes or show rudeness/meanness at times) do not hate homosexuals. They love them with the love of Jesus, even if they won't agree with homosexuals and support them. And I hope someone shows your friend this love, because it's the love we all need - gay, lesbian, or straight.

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Ashley Zook –   – (November 13, 2012 at 9:47 PM)  

Talia, I'm so proud of you. It pains me to see that so few can tell the difference between hate and disagreeing. they are VERY different.

Anonymous –   – (November 14, 2012 at 9:35 AM)  

Way to go Talia! I totally agree with every word you said. Echoing Ashley, it is so sad to see how our world gets so confused between disagreeing and being hateful or intolerant. Great job in putting your beliefs into words (so hard for me to do :) ) and for standing up for what you believe. :D

Madeline  – (November 14, 2012 at 9:58 AM)  

Good for you for posting! Wow, I would have been steaming hot, and my little 'ole temper wouldn't have helped.

BFoxy  – (November 14, 2012 at 7:28 PM)  

I agree with what you say, Talia. I would also like to add that yes, this homosexual IS born that way. That IS who he is-BECAUSE we are all born in sin, with a sin nature, BUT GOD does not want people to STAY in their sin nature. The reason that God considers homosexuality sin is because SEX and LOVE here on earth were meant to be a depiction of CHRISTS love for the church. (Anything that does not display or comply with the characteristics of our Holy God is sin. It's just a fact. It doesn't mean that it won't feel right or wrong or whatever.) That is why marriage between a man and a woman is sacred. God does love homosexuals, and I would like to make a final point=that I think Rob is making a huge misunderstanding about Christianity. It is all about God. Becoming more like Him, knowing Him, and sharing Him with the world. I don't feel like Rob was talking about the same kind of Christianity. I'm also kind of curious how such a reader found his way onto your blog, Talia. ;) But the Lord wills and works all things for His glory. Thank you, Rob, for your intellectual stimulation as well. Your comments are greatly appreciated and respected.

Sam Parker  – (January 28, 2013 at 2:25 PM)  

I'm commenting a long time later, I know. While I believe homosexuality is in direct opposition to Christianity, it is my personal opinion that, because the law and the church are separate, sacred identities, it is not the responsibility of the governing authorities to either prohibit or endorse gay marriage. Marriage is a religious bind, and due to the fact that I rejoice in the U.S. Constitution and the rights it gifts us, I think that homosexual couples should not be limited by the government in this free nation.

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